It's good to see that MEN is not stopping and holding their breath until all the uncertainty is over. Best option right now is heads down and drive as much business as usual activity as possible.
Note: That doesn't mean that I'm advocating that the Carrier business keep their heads down and erode the business as usual.
Desk Jockey
· 11 months ago
Yes, it is amazing what the employees there are putting up with. I can't begin to understand the stress they're under and the uncertainty so to see them still be able to innovate is a great reward.
Good job guys, keep up the hope and don't worry: While the name of Nortel may be hated by "investers" (aka "pumpers") it still carries weight in the industry as far as experience goes!
broadbandbill
· 11 months ago
DJ,
Amen! Amen!
NT's tag line should read:
'A Century of Excellence!'
Go ahead, call me an NT hater; I DARE you...--bb
Should have Sold in Feb 2004
· 11 months ago
Well well, you and Desk Jockey aren't that bad after all. If only Protosphere and yes4appl had 1 millionth of your compassion, there could be some hope for AAN.
I still don't understand why the bashers here want the stock to go to 0, other than they must have been really burned in the past either as employees or investors????
GO NORTEL...WIN ONE FOR THE GIPPER!!!
Desk Jockey
· 11 months ago
Based on your past comments you are in no position to judge broadbandbill, myself or anyone else here. If anyone still believes you they should remember that you famously said that "bloggers and AAN posters" are "destroying" Nortel. They have done no such thing and even if it were possible this would say more about Nortel than it would about these bloggers and posters!
There also aren't any posters that "want" the stock to go to 0. I believe this is a straw man you have invented so that your weak arguments are made to seem feasible.
Please try to read what you have written before you post it.
broadbandbill
· 11 months ago
ShSiF2004,
Omg; I must be slipping and need to change my style. As we say in Hollywood, so much more fun being a bad guy…---bb
puddintane
· 11 months ago
Its the same with a terminally ill friend - (when) do you let go? Do you (ever) let them let go? Do you spare no expense to keep them alive cuz "its only money", even if that life is pure misery for everyone and better spent on orphans in Africa?
Ted Kennedy didn't wear his trademark cocksure face as he left the hospital, but he's since been hailed a national treasure by his much more lifeless than he a$$-kissers, and even regained some of his swagger.
He should be squaring away his stuff instead of playing God, jr. He's dead meat.
Tired
· 11 months ago
BB - I would never dare to call you a hater. I have disagreed with you at times and seriously agreed with you at times. I think when I first started reading on AAN I may have seen you as a hater. But I have learned that that is definitely not the case. You have made some rather profound comments and have definitely shown compassion too. You may find many of my posts offensive or disagree with them, but I am ironically one of your biggest fans. Cheers.
Clint
· 11 months ago
I am sure the employees are doing that. They are professionals.
NT_Foreva_
· 11 months ago
Funny how most of the Senior managers and a huge amount of people have been identified as MEN whether they work there currently or not.
This is Nortel's way of getting rid of people without giving them a package. So obvious to those of us on the front lines.
Imagine working in an atmosphere like that, i'm surprised Nortel can get anything done these days.
broadbandbill
· 11 months ago
NT_F_
No, it’s management’s way of rearranging the chairs. Btw, is the band still palying?..--bb
more
· 11 months ago
The fat lady is due to end singing soon :-)
Lonely Ops Guy
· 11 months ago
Whaddaya think? They're just trying to save their sorry arses.....
Clint
· 11 months ago
Managers and sorry asses. That goes hand in hand doesn't it? I imagine it must be hard for all the suckups over at NT nowadays. What's the point in them sucking up to a manager who is on his or her way out or should be on his or her way out, not to mention the suckupee? They need to do something about overblown salaries in management. Reduce Reduce Reduce. The triple R six sigma suckup. Same with personnel who were downgraded from management but kept the salary they had as managers. That is plain WRONG. They are so wasteful at NT. No wonder they have so many problems. Stop all outsourcing effective yesterday. Move NT head office to Quebec which will lead to Canadian Government tax subsidies, credits and other types of bailouts. If you are not in a business making money or on a product that is currently not selling (save LTE) you should be gone. Admin should be canned. Sales and Marketing people canned if they don't hit a defined quota. What do they get instead? A CEO and CTO trumpeting six sigma and lecturing employees on all the "good things" they did. Comical isn't it?
Nortel watcher
· 11 months ago
Clint, if you only knew how returning expats at NT are able to retain most of their astronomical salary...I agree with you, above industry average salaries at NT are one more slap on the face of shareholders
Tired
· 11 months ago
Clint - a few questions. Were you once employed at Nortel and downsized? Did a project running under Six Sigma affect a process or team you were in and you were later "optimized"? Just curious. Also, you made a lot of earlier comments that anybody making over 100K should be laid off - no severance. That seems extreme. Is it that you don't think anyone anywhere deserves to make over that number? Do none of them add value once they reach that level in your opinion?
Clint
· 11 months ago
How do you get identifed as working in MEN if you don't actually work there? Explain that? The only way they get rid of people without giving them a package is if they leave or if MEN are sold.
MEN
· 11 months ago
Same as I do not trust NT management, I do not trust MEN leadership either. MEN leadership are lucky since their peers in other lines of business are worst than them, so people think they are stars.
Mr Morin somehow survived the storms by stabbing his mentors and leaders (Steve Slattery was most recent). He is reposnsible for wasing more than 200 Million of R&D money in 2000-2004 funding his ill HDX platform which until 2006 did not sell more than handful devices. Somehow, MikeZ GE mentality did not see thru this and they gave Mr Morin MEN, and what did he do? nothing. PBT was not his idea and he took it no where. MERS8600 continued to starve and he continued to turn MEN teams in the US and Canada against each other
Among the MEN ranks is the leader/GM of the famous Naptune. Another HDX like failure where he wasted tens of millions building a product with no customers. What was the reward in 2007? they saved him and placed him in MEN.
Among leaders ranks there are also countless "quality manager" who did nothing for years to improve MEN margins. for more than 8 years MEN is not profitable and it will never be under this leadership. Why are they still on board, they are Morin's freinds in Montreal.
MEN have great products attributed to the hard working R&D members, but the entire managment team around Morin, including himself are wasting every ones time while sucking the highest salaries within Nortel.
Clint
· 11 months ago
And what is the deal with that Metro Nexus or Nextup Program? Named something to that effect? My source over at NT says there is some big behemoth project in MEN called this that has no customers, does not work and managers and employees in that program suck money as you say for something totally uselss with no potential. Why do NT keep programs like this? How do they expect to compete when they fund loser projects like this, paying and rewarding employees in that group for nothing. Boggles the mind doesn't it? I have heard though that the 40G/100G technology and implementation is way ahead of everyone else in the industry in terms of practicality, implementation, availability and user friendliness. Not to mention Quality. If they have a winner on their hands it seems the longer NT have it the more likely it will have problems much like the company itself? What's a girl to do?
NewBlue
· 11 months ago
MEN/MetroNext is using the same code base as "Naptune" which explains why it doesn't really work.
Why do they keep programs like this? Anyone's guess but probably to keep employed that "Naptune" clown mentioned in the previous post. Remember, this BU and product are puported to be part of the Nortel crown jewels, the only BU with substantial enough value that they can sell it off and make money from it. That should give you a pretty good indication of just how bad things really are and why the entire top level of executive leadership should be relieved of command.
MEN
· 11 months ago
The project is called Metro Next. It is a repeat of an earlier project called TeraBit Interceptor which was planned 7 years ago but was killed after the bubble. MEN managers brought this again and sold it to the GE managers who have no clue about anything, hence the project restarted with no clear owner, plan, architecure or customer.
MetroNext is another money sucking and job saving project. It was supposted to deleiver in December 2008. It is not clear if the beaten up employees have more energy to work on it and save the MEN management team that failed them for years.
This same project is a cause of big tension between the CTO office, Enterprise and MEN. All these teams are competing for funds and they are slowing each other down.
Time to clean up the MEN management.
many
· 11 months ago
TeraBit Interceptor? Wasn't that part of Neptune?
Ishmael
· 11 months ago
The beauty of the MEN 40G-100G story is that it even works where 10G doesn't work and it even works over other manufacturers amps - how cool is that!
question
· 11 months ago
I heard that nortel 40G works only with Nortel Optics locking the Carriers from using off the shelf optics, is it true?.
Ishmael
· 11 months ago
If you mean can you plug your OC768 juniper/cisco router port into the NT 40G port then the answer is yes of course.
puddintane
· 11 months ago
...and it doesn't cost you an extra cent in electricity consumption.
Time to share...
· 11 months ago
I have been reading AAN for ages, daily. As a Nortel employee it has become my main source of corporate information. Like others on this blog have suggested, internal communication is narrowly focused on "our path forward". I don't deny that corporate communications must do this, in an effort to keep the company afloat, but the approach demands that Nortel employees goes outside the company to appreciate other people's perspectives.
What am I getting at? I have held back submitting to this blog because as an employee I feel that my energies should be directed towards helping the company. There is an interesting poem about loyalty that promotes the importance of staying loyal the company until you leave, which is something I believe in. So writing a post on this blog has, although tempting, been something I have avoided. Until now.
Working at Nortel is no easy feat. For all of you out there who have felt the need to criticize employees I don't blame you. But consider an insider's perspective. I have worked here for more than 15 years, in many roles, most of which as a senior manager. I have an engineering background and a management background, so I have been able to toggle between the disparate internal cultures. The company has, over the years, faced an identity crisis. Who are we? What should we do? Who are our competitors? Many questions, many answers - and a conversation that included many employees from all over the globe.
Meanwhile, the board felt it necessary to bring in outsiders to fix us. We were broken so people more smarter than us had to come in as our saviours. For years after Dunn was gone, all we heard was how the problems of the company were our fault. We were not changing quick enough, we were not reacting quick enough, our ideas were too old, WE were too old. New blood was needed at the exec levels and at the employee levels. Change change change!
It was a catch 22. Whenever a seasoned employee suggested new ways of doing things or resisted ideas that made no sense, they were accused of not towing the company line. Whenever a new employee (or exec) for that matter had a new idea or resisted, they were hailed as being transformational leaders. What happened? New ideas that didn't make sense were implemented based on experiences from other industries, without understanding how they would affect Nortel. History, culture of the company was ignored or criticized. All learning was dismissed. Factions were created not only at the executive ranks but also between old and new employees and young and old employees. Those best positioned to succeed: those who said yes, to anything.
Those of us who resisted and who argued for the RIGHT change, not just any change, were accused as being the dissatisfied and unsupportive employee base. But many of us didn't stop. We kept pushing to get the company to do the right things, to do what we knew would help. More often than not it didn't work, but I believe that many of us are still trying.
Why do we stay? For me it's because underneath it all, this company means so much to me. I started my career here and have made many good friends, learned a ton and believe that technology can really enhance people's lives. It anyone thinks that I stay because I believe in the leadership, the reverse is true: I stay despite the leadership. I am hoping that one day, the board and the leaders will wake up and see the error of their ways. They need to admit that it is IMPOSSIBLE to run this complex company from the summit with just a few individuals. It doesn't matter if you are Einstein - it cannot be done. The company, the industry, the market is way too complex. This should have been obvious to the exec team three years ago, and to the board many years before that. Nortel's overestimation of the market demand back in the late nineties was the first indication that the company had lost control over its own intelligence. From then on, the problems simply compounded. The arrogance of leadership simply reinforced the problems and when execs ran out of external forces to blame, they blamed employees.
It is very difficult to go through years upon years of bad news, all the while having execs tell you it was your fault. It is difficult, frustrating and disheartening. 30,000 employees cannot be wrong all the time. Sooner or later someone needs to realize that there are systemic issues that are at the core of these problems - this is obvious by the fact that every new executive falls into the same behaviour pattern as does every new employee. There are many new employees now and many new executives and yet Nortel keeps failing. Maybe it's time to face the grim reality that the corporation (as it stands today) cannot sustain itself.
Desk Jockey
· 11 months ago
Time to share,
That was one of the best posts on AAN I have yet to see. You are completely correct in your assessment and I suspect there are many loyal NT employees who echo your exact sentiments. The failed idea of bringing in "new blood" and ignoring the very real concerns of those who had broke their backs building this company only to see it tore apart by outsiders.
The current problem with MZ and his executive team is that they were arrogant. They thought they "knew it all" and that their GEnius experience counted for everything. They came in here with their delusional predispositions and believed that they would change Nortel into a Jack Welsh wet dream and they would get all the credit for this. This was confirmed by the introduction of ridiculous lean sucks sigma initiatives and the even more preposterous use of ninja black belts with no real work except to make things harder for the rank and file. Even today they still hold these beliefs, having spent so much time deceiving others that they have deceived themselves!
However there are many even outside of Nortel who don't want this to change. I am referring to the "investors" aka pumpers of NT ("Should have Sold in Feb 2004", and Psychiatrist, you know who you are!) who bought in because of the lies they believed and who now have a vested interest to suppress the truth so that their NT stock will go up a few more pennies! These people now want to cover up all missteps by management and instead choose to live in a fantasy world where the only thing wrong with NT is media bias! These people will roundly criticize you as being a lazy or not loyal employee and instead put the company's failures on YOU, not upper management! Unfortunately as the stock price falls AAN seems to be dominated by more and more of these pumpers who endlessly attack Mr. Evans et al for even daring to speak the truth.
Do not worry though - the truth will always come out.
Best wishes,
Desk Jockey
broadbandbill
· 11 months ago
Wow!! I strongly advise you send this to the (very) top, they need to hear what guys like you are thinking. You are a gem....--bb
Another Nortel Watcher
· 11 months ago
Great post! Hang in there. I think the current cabinet will be purged inside six months. This will unfortunately cause some disruption and churn, but it's necessary. Good luck and let's hear more from you as events progress!
Nortelguy
· 11 months ago
Great Post. You need to get this up to Mike / Darryl etc, as it echos the feelings of 30,000 employees precisely. For me, 5 years was enough, so I handed my notice in a couple of months ago. If you don't want to, email me & I'll send it up & bcc you (I'm leaving anyway, so they can't fire me!!!)
Clint
· 11 months ago
It all starts with the Board. They elect and approve of a Chief Executive Officer. I believe the CEO then approves of CTO etc., but I am not sure of that? Shit rolls downhill and the board has been spewing it out since they hired Roth. Look who you have on the board. Guys like John Manley. Give me a break/fracture. Until the board is abolished and injected with proper blood things will never, I repeat never improve at that place. Best thing for NT at this juncture would be for it to be bought or dispersed/dissected. That's the only way you will get rid of the board. I doubt they'll walk away and recognize/admit their incompetencies. Would you? They'll just keep putting cash on the fire, and increase their solidarity and stubborness. Just Like Scrooge. Christmas is just around the corner. Will the ghosts visit? We'll see.
All Comments
Note: That doesn't mean that I'm advocating that the Carrier business keep their heads down and erode the business as usual.
Good job guys, keep up the hope and don't worry: While the name of Nortel may be hated by "investers" (aka "pumpers") it still carries weight in the industry as far as experience goes!
Amen! Amen!
NT's tag line should read:
'A Century of Excellence!'
Go ahead, call me an NT hater; I DARE you...--bb
I still don't understand why the bashers here want the stock to go to 0, other than they must have been really burned in the past either as employees or investors????
GO NORTEL...WIN ONE FOR THE GIPPER!!!
There also aren't any posters that "want" the stock to go to 0. I believe this is a straw man you have invented so that your weak arguments are made to seem feasible.
Please try to read what you have written before you post it.
Omg; I must be slipping and need to change my style. As we say in Hollywood, so much more fun being a bad guy…---bb
Ted Kennedy didn't wear his trademark cocksure face as he left the hospital, but he's since been hailed a national treasure by his much more lifeless than he a$$-kissers, and even regained some of his swagger.
He should be squaring away his stuff instead of playing God, jr. He's dead meat.
They are professionals.
This is Nortel's way of getting rid of people without giving them a package. So obvious to those of us on the front lines.
Imagine working in an atmosphere like that, i'm surprised Nortel can get anything done these days.
No, it’s management’s way of rearranging the chairs. Btw, is the band still palying?..--bb
I imagine it must be hard for all the suckups over at NT nowadays.
What's the point in them sucking up to a manager who is on his or her way out or should be on his or her way out, not to mention the suckupee?
They need to do something about overblown salaries in management.
Reduce Reduce Reduce. The triple R six sigma suckup.
Same with personnel who were downgraded from management but kept the salary they had as managers. That is plain WRONG.
They are so wasteful at NT. No wonder they have so many problems.
Stop all outsourcing effective yesterday.
Move NT head office to Quebec which will lead to Canadian Government tax subsidies, credits and other types of bailouts.
If you are not in a business making money or on a product that is currently not selling (save LTE) you should be gone.
Admin should be canned. Sales and Marketing people canned if they don't hit a defined quota.
What do they get instead?
A CEO and CTO trumpeting six sigma and lecturing employees on all the "good things" they did.
Comical isn't it?
if you only knew how returning expats at NT are able to retain most of their astronomical salary...I agree with you, above industry average salaries at NT are one more slap on the face of shareholders
Explain that?
The only way they get rid of people without giving them a package is if they leave or if MEN are sold.
Mr Morin somehow survived the storms by stabbing his mentors and leaders (Steve Slattery was most recent). He is reposnsible for wasing more than 200 Million of R&D money in 2000-2004 funding his ill HDX platform which until 2006 did not sell more than handful devices. Somehow, MikeZ GE mentality did not see thru this and they gave Mr Morin MEN, and what did he do? nothing. PBT was not his idea and he took it no where. MERS8600 continued to starve and he continued to turn MEN teams in the US and Canada against each other
Among the MEN ranks is the leader/GM of the famous Naptune. Another HDX like failure where he wasted tens of millions building a product with no customers. What was the reward in 2007? they saved him and placed him in MEN.
Among leaders ranks there are also countless "quality manager" who did nothing for years to improve MEN margins. for more than 8 years MEN is not profitable and it will never be under this leadership. Why are they still on board, they are Morin's freinds in Montreal.
MEN have great products attributed to the hard working R&D members, but the entire managment team around Morin, including himself are wasting every ones time while sucking the highest salaries within Nortel.
Named something to that effect?
My source over at NT says there is some big behemoth project in MEN called this that has no customers, does not work and managers and employees in that program suck money as you say for something totally uselss with no potential. Why do NT keep programs like this? How do they expect to compete when they fund loser projects like this, paying and rewarding employees in that group for nothing.
Boggles the mind doesn't it?
I have heard though that the 40G/100G technology and implementation is way ahead of everyone else in the industry in terms of practicality, implementation, availability and user friendliness. Not to mention Quality.
If they have a winner on their hands it seems the longer NT have it the more likely it will have problems much like the company itself?
What's a girl to do?
Why do they keep programs like this? Anyone's guess but probably to keep employed that "Naptune" clown mentioned in the previous post. Remember, this BU and product are puported to be part of the Nortel crown jewels, the only BU with substantial enough value that they can sell it off and make money from it. That should give you a pretty good indication of just how bad things really are and why the entire top level of executive leadership should be relieved of command.
MetroNext is another money sucking and job saving project. It was supposted to deleiver in December 2008. It is not clear if the beaten up employees have more energy to work on it and save the MEN management team that failed them for years.
This same project is a cause of big tension between the CTO office, Enterprise and MEN. All these teams are competing for funds and they are slowing each other down.
Time to clean up the MEN management.
What am I getting at? I have held back submitting to this blog because as an employee I feel that my energies should be directed towards helping the company. There is an interesting poem about loyalty that promotes the importance of staying loyal the company until you leave, which is something I believe in. So writing a post on this blog has, although tempting, been something I have avoided. Until now.
Working at Nortel is no easy feat. For all of you out there who have felt the need to criticize employees I don't blame you. But consider an insider's perspective. I have worked here for more than 15 years, in many roles, most of which as a senior manager. I have an engineering background and a management background, so I have been able to toggle between the disparate internal cultures. The company has, over the years, faced an identity crisis. Who are we? What should we do? Who are our competitors? Many questions, many answers - and a conversation that included many employees from all over the globe.
Meanwhile, the board felt it necessary to bring in outsiders to fix us. We were broken so people more smarter than us had to come in as our saviours. For years after Dunn was gone, all we heard was how the problems of the company were our fault. We were not changing quick enough, we were not reacting quick enough, our ideas were too old, WE were too old. New blood was needed at the exec levels and at the employee levels. Change change change!
It was a catch 22. Whenever a seasoned employee suggested new ways of doing things or resisted ideas that made no sense, they were accused of not towing the company line. Whenever a new employee (or exec) for that matter had a new idea or resisted, they were hailed as being transformational leaders. What happened? New ideas that didn't make sense were implemented based on experiences from other industries, without understanding how they would affect Nortel. History, culture of the company was ignored or criticized. All learning was dismissed. Factions were created not only at the executive ranks but also between old and new employees and young and old employees. Those best positioned to succeed: those who said yes, to anything.
Those of us who resisted and who argued for the RIGHT change, not just any change, were accused as being the dissatisfied and unsupportive employee base. But many of us didn't stop. We kept pushing to get the company to do the right things, to do what we knew would help. More often than not it didn't work, but I believe that many of us are still trying.
Why do we stay? For me it's because underneath it all, this company means so much to me. I started my career here and have made many good friends, learned a ton and believe that technology can really enhance people's lives. It anyone thinks that I stay because I believe in the leadership, the reverse is true: I stay despite the leadership. I am hoping that one day, the board and the leaders will wake up and see the error of their ways. They need to admit that it is IMPOSSIBLE to run this complex company from the summit with just a few individuals. It doesn't matter if you are Einstein - it cannot be done. The company, the industry, the market is way too complex. This should have been obvious to the exec team three years ago, and to the board many years before that. Nortel's overestimation of the market demand back in the late nineties was the first indication that the company had lost control over its own intelligence. From then on, the problems simply compounded. The arrogance of leadership simply reinforced the problems and when execs ran out of external forces to blame, they blamed employees.
It is very difficult to go through years upon years of bad news, all the while having execs tell you it was your fault. It is difficult, frustrating and disheartening. 30,000 employees cannot be wrong all the time. Sooner or later someone needs to realize that there are systemic issues that are at the core of these problems - this is obvious by the fact that every new executive falls into the same behaviour pattern as does every new employee. There are many new employees now and many new executives and yet Nortel keeps failing. Maybe it's time to face the grim reality that the corporation (as it stands today) cannot sustain itself.
That was one of the best posts on AAN I have yet to see. You are completely correct in your assessment and I suspect there are many loyal NT employees who echo your exact sentiments. The failed idea of bringing in "new blood" and ignoring the very real concerns of those who had broke their backs building this company only to see it tore apart by outsiders.
The current problem with MZ and his executive team is that they were arrogant. They thought they "knew it all" and that their GEnius experience counted for everything. They came in here with their delusional predispositions and believed that they would change Nortel into a Jack Welsh wet dream and they would get all the credit for this. This was confirmed by the introduction of ridiculous lean sucks sigma initiatives and the even more preposterous use of ninja black belts with no real work except to make things harder for the rank and file. Even today they still hold these beliefs, having spent so much time deceiving others that they have deceived themselves!
However there are many even outside of Nortel who don't want this to change. I am referring to the "investors" aka pumpers of NT ("Should have Sold in Feb 2004", and Psychiatrist, you know who you are!) who bought in because of the lies they believed and who now have a vested interest to suppress the truth so that their NT stock will go up a few more pennies! These people now want to cover up all missteps by management and instead choose to live in a fantasy world where the only thing wrong with NT is media bias! These people will roundly criticize you as being a lazy or not loyal employee and instead put the company's failures on YOU, not upper management! Unfortunately as the stock price falls AAN seems to be dominated by more and more of these pumpers who endlessly attack Mr. Evans et al for even daring to speak the truth.
Do not worry though - the truth will always come out.
Best wishes,
Desk Jockey
They elect and approve of a Chief Executive Officer.
I believe the CEO then approves of CTO etc., but I am not sure of that?
Shit rolls downhill and the board has been spewing it out since they hired Roth. Look who you have on the board.
Guys like John Manley.
Give me a break/fracture.
Until the board is abolished and injected with proper blood things will never, I repeat never improve at that place.
Best thing for NT at this juncture would be for it to be bought or dispersed/dissected.
That's the only way you will get rid of the board.
I doubt they'll walk away and recognize/admit their incompetencies.
Would you?
They'll just keep putting cash on the fire, and increase their solidarity and stubborness.
Just Like Scrooge. Christmas is just around the corner.
Will the ghosts visit?
We'll see.