It's a business decision, nothing to do with CMMI or technical reasons....cost focused.
The executive sponsor for this project is David Ayers. A CTO guy...which means he is a looser.
For CDMA Malzahn is the target.....for Lab (GLO GXX Lab Operations) seek out Wayne McFall who by the way got his daughter (16 year old high school drop out) hired through Calian...no conflict of interest here folks....just business as usual in the MIKE Z era.
Please post the other suscpects. Thanks.
NewBlue
· 1 year ago
Well, it does matter. The logistics of having PV sited in a separate location thousands of miles and multiple time zones away from the engineers is demonstrably problematic and is not a new development. To continue down this path is simply maniacal and another step down the path to failure.
Also, PV is not dysfunctional. Is there room for improvement in how bugs are managed? Sure. However, tracking and fixing CRs isn't the problem. The methods employed for generating the schedule are. This comes back to management: top to bottom, side to side. Unless and until management (line managers, directors, PLM, etc.) begins to involve the engineers who actually know what it's going to take to get the job done in the process of generating the schedule, the problems with "dates" is never going to go away.
And while customers may not notice a change in quality with respect to PV, they will notice that the products will take longer and longer to deliver as a result of the inherent problems solving engineering issues long-distance. Quality has never been that much of an issue; on time delivery has.
Outsourcing PV is not a step in the right direction. As was mentioned earlier, the clowns that came up with this idea and moved forward with it won't be here when the massive collapse occurs resulting from this horrendous decision. They'll be off on their next corporate remake, spending the millions the Nortel BoD saw fit to grant them.
Silent Partner
· 1 year ago
Funny. What PV? ;)
Heard the same thing. About 1800 people world wide will be outsourced. Not sure as to the groups in so called centers of excellence (i.e. Netas).
Tina
· 1 year ago
Can ALL Nortel be sold to IBM?
Observer
· 1 year ago
so IBM would have control over whether a product gets released or not ? they could delay all of Nortel's releases while slowly encroaching on Nortel's business with their own equipment. Why not just sell all of enterprise to IBM outright and go back to becoming a carrier company.
Former NT PV
· 1 year ago
As someone who worked for 10 years at Nortel in PV all I can say is: What the hell are they thinking? There's enough friction between testers and designers as it is! This will be a catastrophe, as is pretty much everything Nortel has done since about when I joined the company!
Sell, sell, sell!
Another Nortelite for tonight.
· 1 year ago
hey whats gonna happen to us testing team? ?
NT
· 1 year ago
it was said this will happens no later than early of 2009...ridiculous that IBM already had much early design phase work, now it will have PV, so what Nortel would do?
?
· 1 year ago
What is NT doing ?? - Design outsource to Wipro - PV outsource to IBM
What is left ? Management, sales?
NT
· 1 year ago
CEO, CTO, CFO, CxO still in house not sold.
Blinking Lights
· 1 year ago
I think that if Nortel outsourced its executives it might save a lot more money.
norteilte
· 1 year ago
Ya, it is confirmed. It will be officially announced tomorrow.
Another Nortelite for tonight.
· 1 year ago
Yea....its almost confirmed ....we'll know by tomorrow afternoon :)
another nortelite
· 1 year ago
hey.. hold on... lets wait for an official information/intimation/confirmation.. and lets not get carried away by speculation and assumptions and gossip. even if it happens so, it might really be a good strategic decision for both Nortel and IBM. you will never know.. what looks weird or bad at first sight, would normally turn out to be far signted and a good... or atleast hope so. so, let us wait and watch how things unveil and only after that we anyways will have a final say - on whether we want to stay back with NT/IBM or anywhere else... so... just lets hang on.. and see how things unveil... and not panick...
norteilte
· 1 year ago
It is happening for sure, no doubt.. But hope it is happening for the good ...
ExCSCnNowNT
· 1 year ago
Dont worry. It'll be like IS outsourced to CSC then when the service charges get outrageuos, it'll be insourced again.
NewBlue
· 1 year ago
This is going to be an unmitigated disaster.
Nortel R&D already has an extremely difficult time with multi-site product development (engineering in one location and PV in another) before this new move. This is not going to make it any better. One of the important keys in all of this is going to be detailed engineering documentation. There simply won't be enough time granted to get this done. There will be plenty of lip service, but no true documentation, at least not what's going to be required.
I predict this will be one of the worst decisions to come out of the executive leadership since they've assumed power. They will save a few bucks in the short term; they will lose money hand-over-fist in the longer term, due to increased PV costs that were either never predicted or simply ignored, and loss of accounts due to late deliverables.
no need
· 1 year ago
What about RnD development team.. whats the future..will it be IBM/TCS/Infy/Wipro/Sasken/(or any start up?)...
NewBlue
· 1 year ago
"What about RnD development team.. whats the future"
Cheapest payroll. India or China.
ex-nt2
· 1 year ago
its already happening. people have been re-vectored. Optical 5000 ring a bell. great finternal anfare to outsource to flex then insourced since it was pathethic. only the original team was disbande. hurrah! ibm is hiring but low end fresh grads or 2 years experience. that cannot match the years of experience out here.
what do they expect the work flow to be. Nortel - Wipro / Infy - Nortel - IBM - Nortel - Wipro / Infy - Nortel for development activties? Sounds like long hours, very lengthy cycle time not to mention a whole bunch of frustrated engineers and managers.
I am sure some quick talking exec looks like a hero in Nortel. Only he wont be around to face the music when this whole thing goes bad.
many
· 1 year ago
My opinion is that it does not matter.
Nortel PV is barely functional right now. There is no agility or flexibility in PV. PV is pushed to the wall for dates and the process for changes or bug fixes (and there are a lot) is so cumbersome In the current environment that it takes months to get even the most basic stuff done. Customers will not notice that the quality of the PV engineers has been dumbed down.
What I want to know is how come all of those six-sigma process black belts couldn't make a go of it, and in fact have made it *worse*?
-
· 1 year ago
Here is the plan: IBM will take over Nortel’s PV low cost centers North American (NA) PV mgmt will stay in tack NA PV functional testing will move to design. NA PV system testing will move to IBM. A few of the top NA PV engineers will keep their jobs.
contractor
· 1 year ago
I believe it was a design call: the design fully recognized the size of the desaster that is going to happen after PV outsourced.
plastered
· 1 year ago
Sick Sigma Six pink belts. What a betty crocker waste of time.
Observer
· 1 year ago
PV is a necessary evil that can be done by lower cost centers. What's critical is the planning of PV and coverage. Most of that will stay in NA from what I am told. Everyone here forgot to mention what Nortel gets in exchange for this - full access to IBM's sales channels and IBM pushing Nortel's solutions to their customers as well. Cisco should be very worried by the Nortel/IBM/Microsoft partnership.
NewBlue
· 1 year ago
"PV...can be done by lower cost centers."
I guess we'll see.
But I could not disagree more. Planning and coverage will be critical, to be sure. However, reproducing the problem found at the PV center by the engineers without the resources to reproduce them is going to slow the release down to a crawl. It's already bad...now it's going to be worse. All those channels and product pushes aren't going to mean a thing if there's nothing to push because of the company's inability to resolve PV issues in a timely, efficient manner.
Another Nortel Watcher
· 1 year ago
I'm going to hazard a guess that the geniuses who cooked this one up have never participated in any large system software development. This is a ridiculous plan that will add significant cost and delay to Nortel's output.
This is just another example that the strength of leadership that made Nortel a force to be reckoned with is long gone, replaced by internal and external industry leftovers. Such a shame.
many
· 1 year ago
ANW - My guess is your guess comes from experience. My experience lately w/Nortel is that they have all but given up on anything but basic PV and are (like their competitors) delivering a product that needs significant integration effort once it reaches the customer network.
This trend has been going on for a while. A lot of network owners are having to pay the price for cheap NEs by having to do their own PV. Honestly it is not as bad with tier one equipment vendors, a little worse with tier two vendors and orders of magnitude more painful with tier three vendors. Nortel is not the worst, but they are clearly not the best.
Another Nortel Watcher
· 1 year ago
Many - good guess. I see a cancer spreading across a lot of the tier 1 vendors. I'll label that cancer as an acceptance of 'being adequate'. At a time when the Chinese vendors are encroaching aggressively from one direction and non-traditional solutions and suppliers are encroaching from another direction, companies like Nortel need to feel a passion to be the best and to win. Instead of operating with an attitude of 'you get what you pay for', Nortel needs an attitude of 'you earn what you fight for'.
exnt2
· 1 year ago
heard this move has taken place or in the process. any idea if people are being transferred to IBM have to sign paperwork? if IBM lays them off will their severance bridge experience at Nortel or only the time at IBM. That would be really screw the employees over since they would only get a few weeks severance. wow!
ruprtor
· 1 year ago
Transfer to IBM is already under way and some people have already been transferred. No special paperwork so that employees can be screwed anytime. Most will get laid off with the outsourced jobs going to India.
Guyfranko
· 1 year ago
I spoke to my buddy in Nortel Ottawa PV team and most PV team will be laid off. Some will be moving to IBM, and others will be outsourced to lower cost countries China, India or the cheapest possible destination.
agent99
· 1 year ago
Here is an extra bit for ya. Nortel has already spent many months/years training little guys from India to do testing. Now, those guys from India are being chucked for the IBM guys in India, who aren't familiar with the technology at all. Nortel expects that the current North American employees will be thrilled to train their replacements. Nortel has done this before, but they offered retention bonuses to the folks who bit their tongues and trained the new guys. This time there is no talk of bonuses, just shut up and do it..... and be happy about it.
Limeoid.
· 1 year ago
Life's a bitch and then you die.
froggy
· 1 year ago
These comments demonstrate high moral level of Nortel emploees. To cheer them up I would add that there is a plan already to cut the last verification guy in Nortel in June 2009.
froggy
· 1 year ago
These comments demonstrate high moral level of Nortel emploees. To cheer them up I would add that there is a plan already to cut the last verification guy in Nortel in June 2009.
Grumpy
· 1 year ago
Sigh. I wish someone would get rid of Z and slappy.
All Comments
The executive sponsor for this project is David Ayers. A CTO guy...which means he is a looser.
For CDMA Malzahn is the target.....for Lab (GLO GXX Lab Operations) seek out Wayne McFall who by the way got his daughter (16 year old high school drop out) hired through Calian...no conflict of interest here folks....just business as usual in the MIKE Z era.
Please post the other suscpects. Thanks.
Also, PV is not dysfunctional. Is there room for improvement in how bugs are managed? Sure. However, tracking and fixing CRs isn't the problem. The methods employed for generating the schedule are. This comes back to management: top to bottom, side to side. Unless and until management (line managers, directors, PLM, etc.) begins to involve the engineers who actually know what it's going to take to get the job done in the process of generating the schedule, the problems with "dates" is never going to go away.
And while customers may not notice a change in quality with respect to PV, they will notice that the products will take longer and longer to deliver as a result of the inherent problems solving engineering issues long-distance. Quality has never been that much of an issue; on time delivery has.
Outsourcing PV is not a step in the right direction. As was mentioned earlier, the clowns that came up with this idea and moved forward with it won't be here when the massive collapse occurs resulting from this horrendous decision. They'll be off on their next corporate remake, spending the millions the Nortel BoD saw fit to grant them.
Heard the same thing. About 1800 people world wide will be outsourced. Not sure as
to the groups in so called centers of excellence (i.e. Netas).
Sell, sell, sell!
- Design outsource to Wipro
- PV outsource to IBM
What is left ? Management, sales?
so, let us wait and watch how things unveil and only after that we anyways will have a final say - on whether we want to stay back with NT/IBM or anywhere else...
so... just lets hang on.. and see how things unveil... and not panick...
But hope it is happening for the good ...
Nortel R&D already has an extremely difficult time with multi-site product development (engineering in one location and PV in another) before this new move. This is not going to make it any better. One of the important keys in all of this is going to be detailed engineering documentation. There simply won't be enough time granted to get this done. There will be plenty of lip service, but no true documentation, at least not what's going to be required.
I predict this will be one of the worst decisions to come out of the executive leadership since they've assumed power. They will save a few bucks in the short term; they will lose money hand-over-fist in the longer term, due to increased PV costs that were either never predicted or simply ignored, and loss of accounts due to late deliverables.
Cheapest payroll. India or China.
what do they expect the work flow to be. Nortel - Wipro / Infy - Nortel - IBM - Nortel - Wipro / Infy - Nortel for development activties? Sounds like long hours, very lengthy cycle time not to mention a whole bunch of frustrated engineers and managers.
I am sure some quick talking exec looks like a hero in Nortel. Only he wont be around to face the music when this whole thing goes bad.
Nortel PV is barely functional right now. There is no agility or flexibility in PV. PV is pushed to the wall for dates and the process for changes or bug fixes (and there are a lot) is so cumbersome In the current environment that it takes months to get even the most basic stuff done. Customers will not notice that the quality of the PV engineers has been dumbed down.
What I want to know is how come all of those six-sigma process black belts couldn't make a go of it, and in fact have made it *worse*?
IBM will take over Nortel’s PV low cost centers
North American (NA) PV mgmt will stay in tack
NA PV functional testing will move to design.
NA PV system testing will move to IBM.
A few of the top NA PV engineers will keep their jobs.
What a betty crocker waste of time.
I guess we'll see.
But I could not disagree more. Planning and coverage will be critical, to be sure. However, reproducing the problem found at the PV center by the engineers without the resources to reproduce them is going to slow the release down to a crawl. It's already bad...now it's going to be worse. All those channels and product pushes aren't going to mean a thing if there's nothing to push because of the company's inability to resolve PV issues in a timely, efficient manner.
This is just another example that the strength of leadership that made Nortel a force to be reckoned with is long gone, replaced by internal and external industry leftovers. Such a shame.
This trend has been going on for a while. A lot of network owners are having to pay the price for cheap NEs by having to do their own PV. Honestly it is not as bad with tier one equipment vendors, a little worse with tier two vendors and orders of magnitude more painful with tier three vendors. Nortel is not the worst, but they are clearly not the best.
To cheer them up I would add that there is a plan already to cut the last verification guy in Nortel in June 2009.
To cheer them up I would add that there is a plan already to cut the last verification guy in Nortel in June 2009.