All About Nortel - Latest Comments in Time to Turn Out the Lights?

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

hangin_in_there — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:58:32 -0000

Way to go with this thread... surely we're close to the point where Godwins Law kicks in.

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

Clint — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:04:10 -0000

And for what it is worth.
Three words on my shit list. Multiculturalism, Tolerance and Open Borders.

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

StillAroundForNow — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:29:35 -0000

We have no greater enemy but ourselves. We all created this problem. Whether it is Nortel, the Nortel executive team, GM, Ford, or any other company that is starting to fall under the pressure of globalism. Yes, the corporate executives are to blame. Who else? Let me name a few. The bashers, the short sellers (yes, you are losing your jobs now too!), the many in government-union controlled "protected" jobs that like to be-little from up-high, the average citizen who would do anything to retire early (who from the Great Generation was ever allowed to do so as they fought the worlds greatest wars?) Well, we American, Canadian, Europian, etc are ALL to blame. How else do you explain the ECONOMIC downturn? Nortels faults? Sure. But we all feed at the same trough. Together. Now we all pay. WE PAY! All of us. From those who are being outsourced (sorry, everyone, Lou Dobbs has been preaching about Outsourcing America for a long time now! To those who just plain are losing their jobs, their homes, their families, and yes, even some, their lives. We must all collectively wake up. And feed ourselves. Nothing has changed. We must help each other and survive OR WE ALL WILL FAIL EVENTUALLY!. Yes, it is cold. Welcome to my world. Keep bashing everyone! So much for patriotisism! I guess that is not part of OUR generation!

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

Clint — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:34:07 -0000

Oh yea that makes alot of sense...NOT.
Check your history books and look at the surnames of ALL the soldiers who have died under the banner of Canada in all our wars. I would say 90 percent of them are of English, Scottish, Italian and Irish Descent. There were also Quebec names but the last real warring Quebecers did was at the plains of Abraham. So you think these guys died for idiots like turdo and his invention aptly named the charter of crap? You think these guys died for people to come into this country to change our laws and customs, wave the charter in hand, change laws, run to the human rights board, bring in their religious muslim fanaticism and more. I don't think so. Do you think these guys died to have politicans lose their minds and harass the general public with official bilingualism. Wrong Again. You could not be more wrong and insulting with that lame ass comment of yours. You must be a liberal, tree hugger, socialist, or a combination of thereof. Go out and talk to some construction guys like that or some guys down at the local legion, or in a bar for that matter.
Yea. What you call hate I call Fed up. Canadians, don't live up to that bullshit handle of being tolerant and naive.

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

Desk_Jockey — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:45:02 -0000

Don't worry notafan, I never harbored any ill-will or bad feelings toward you. In fact I have no resentment against anyone on this board, even those that have viciously attacked me. (Not referring to you)

To be honest I don't worry about you as you show maturity. The ones I worry about are the ones who spout childish comments and stick to their singular line of attacks even when all sense of logic has been lost upon them.

Regards,

Desk Jockey

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

Another Nortel Watcher — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:42:52 -0000

Wow, so much hate. The problem with what 'Clint' suggests is that it will not benefit the majority of Canadians and it will protect those who feel entitled to sit on their butts and complain about all the things that aren't being handed to them on a platter. These people are like spoiled rich kids - they didn't earn the standard of living they enjoy, they inherited it and therefore they think it is an entitlement. A union mentality. Good luck with that folks.

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

exnt2 — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:44:30 -0000

get rid of quebec. bye bye bilingualism. with a few years they will be broke, impoverished and desperate. send in the troops and make it all one unified Canada. no special constituiton. no special nation status. no more damn bilingualism. even the French hate quebecers.

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

exnt2 — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:41:39 -0000

next is water to go.

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

yes4aapl — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:36:05 -0000

Let me begin by saying that I am a loyal Nortel employee. I love this company and the people that work with me. My coworkers are some of the best and brightest in the industry. It is for this reason that I am most outraged at how Nortel has performed in the past. Not because of the employees (at least the ones I know) but because of poor leadership, again and again.
-----
re
I would say so about myself and I don't think I would get many positive responses to that.
Why Nortel is so transparent in lies, misguiding investors, reporting false numbers and expectations?
The last example was single digit growth in 2008. It was a lie!

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

less — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:40:55 -0000

Steven Biko, Victoria Mxenge, Neil Aggett - you can't spell their names without "n" and "t"

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

Gayle — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:57:31 -0000

Is this referred to NSN meeting in Munich? Is this true or another rumour?

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

puddintane — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:32:31 -0000

"Of course, to read what ["Rivethead" author Ben Hamper] has to say on these pages, you may wonder who the real crazy ones are. This insane system known as the assembly line is designed to deny individuality and eliminate self-worth. Do you ever wonder who built the car you drive? Do you think about the personal toll it extracts from those individuals who spend the best years of their lives in a hot, dirty, boring, dehumanizing factory? Out there in the rust belt... the heartbeat of America...well, they're paid so well, you know, for their "unskilled" labor. Hell, they should feel lucky they even have a job! On this book, Ben Hamper tells what a lucky guy he is."

- "Rivethead" forward by Michael Moore

Why doesn't anyone write about their career at Nortel from a similar lowly job perspective?

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

ex-NT my pension is out — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:28:11 -0000

Only the Canadian province of Ontario has a fund that guarantees payment of certain defined benefit pensions in Ontario, subject to prescribed limitations. Called the "Pension Benefit Guarantee Fund" (PBGF), it is a program paid for by employers with defined benefit pension plans through an annual assessment based on the number of Ontario plan members and the plan’s financial situation. In situations where an employer is insolvent and there is an underfunding in the plan on its wind-up, the PBGF will top up the benefits received under the plan by the plan’s Ontario members, within prescribed limits. If money is paid out of the PBGF, the Ontario pension regulator is given a lien and charge over the assets of the employer in an amount equal to that paid out of the PBGF plus interest

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

Should have Sold in Feb 2004 — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:49:05 -0000

Their yearly pension obligation is likely WAY less than 1.5 Billion...just looked at 2007 annual report and it seems to be $893M. The total pension liability for 2007 was substantially less than in 2006. The total current payroll for NT is likely only 3 Billion if 30K employees make an average of $100K....it's likely less than that. So, I don't think their pension obligations are going to bankrupt them.

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

less — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:08:39 -0000

Sure enough, others noticed this too:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/autos.ceo.jets...

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

less — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:03:41 -0000

... I mean, they could've just sat in their modest cubicles and from there utilized Nortel's hyperconnected 3D Surround teleconferencing gizmo to leverage synergies with the lawmakers in Washington instead of causing more global warming?
Methinks Mike Z could've flown in to Detroit long ago and sold his fellow leaders on Nortel - or at least traded the goods for some valuable GM stock.

Its too late now.

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

NewAge — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:59:43 -0000

NT=$0.52...

Last 21 days in NYSE?

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

Clint — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:47:16 -0000

Don't forget the six sigma studs ..er duds..on each black belt.
They'll get promotions and a raise soon. God Forbid the joint sells. The black belts will probably be knighted.

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

Clint — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:42:06 -0000

Exactly.
We need nationalism back in a big way.
We need sanctioned protectionism for certain segments and circumstances.
Let's look at Canuckistan for example.
What a F***ing joke.
Here we have a country overflowing in Natural Resources. Rather than set quotas, build refineries and TELL the rest of the world that here is what WE tthe people of Canada WILL get in exchange for our Natural Resources we have successive governments more worried about making sure signs are bilingual and tripping over themselves due to the disgrace of the Charter and new immigrants taking advantage of the dumb, naive Canuck system.
Wake up Canada.
Take care of your own.
Look at guys like Manley, Cretin, Trudeau and it makes you ill.
Harper, start turning the BOAT around!!!!
I am not whining I am fighting BACK!!
Bout time the rest of you sissies did the same thing rather than give up, and trumpet the ills of outsourcing.
Canada has an extreme advantage that idiotic governments REFUSE to take example of because they are pre-occupied with stupid things.
I suggest anybody get a majority government (we only need two parties).
Get in, Lie (don't all politicians anyway) and make sweeping drastic changes.
You get at least four years of it providing you have a majority don't you.
We can undo the damage.
Wake up Canuck Government. The people are in a perpetual zombie fog.

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

less — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:32:00 -0000

"Where would we be without the Nortels, the GMs, the Fords, the Chryslers of the world? "

Last night I watched our GM bosses literally fly to Congress to lobby for a gummint bailout so they in turn "can (maybe) save the hard-working people of America" Flew straight to Congress. In their private jets. Its that urgent. Its that important to them.

So whats a tiny lil jet like that cost per month, I wondered?

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

broadbandbill — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:05:17 -0000

SAFN,

Hate being misquoted (or misunderstood). For info, I am as a hard-core entrepreneur as you will ever meet so ‘giving up’ is NOT my game. In addition, I am also as vehemently (and violently) opposed to GE/Jack Welch management style (and his greedy, self-serving, country-club management disciples) as you will EVER find. As I have stated before, it is guys like me that create jobs so guys like them can ship them to ‘lower-cost geographies’.

Unfortunately, you are NOT in control of your future - they are; which is the reason why I became an entrepreneur.

Everything you stated, as honestly and as beautifully as you did means little to the powers to be. According to fx (post just below yours, to be confirmed) it is ‘auf wiedersehen’ time. Not your fault….-- bb

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

broadbandbill — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:04:36 -0000

SAFN,

Hate being misquoted (or misunderstood).

For info, I am as a hard-core entrepreneur as you will ever meet so ‘giving up’ is NOT my game. In addition, I am also as vehemently (and violently) opposed to GE/Jack Welch management style (and his greedy, self-serving, country-club management disciples) as you will EVER find. As I have stated before, it is guys like me that create jobs so guys like them can ship them to ‘lower-cost geographies’.

Unfortunately, you are NOT in control of your future - they are; which is the reason why I became an entrepreneur.

Everything you stated, as honestly and as beautifully as you did means little to the powers to be. According to fx (post just below yours, to be confirmed) it is ‘auf wiedersehen’ time. Not your fault….-- bb

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

StillAroundForNow — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:24:42 -0000

The point was, and obviously lost by all, not to give up. Keep trying. Don't feel entitled to anything. The cold reality is, that jobs are leaving. Money is leaving. The companies most people felt comfortable with in leaving their retirement money in are going. You can be like broadbandbill and say hell, that's the way its always been. Or you try to do better, than what was done before. Real change. Not giving up. That was the message. Sorry, but some of us still here we will never give up. Outsourcing our jobs won't fix anything. Cheaper is never better. Yes, Nortel is not the first. Many mom-and-pop shops are gone also. Many other good companies are gone. Just move on? Sure, when I am told to leave. Until then, we do like everyone else does, do your job, do it well. Like every generation has. Stop being a whiner and do your part.

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

yes4aapl — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:22:51 -0000

Good or bad. If Nortel fails, it is a collective failure and a lose-lose situation for everyone.
-----
re
Nope
Sir, you try to make the public responsible of Nortel's failures and Nortel's frauds.
Nortel is $300 mill market cap company now for a reason.
The reason is that stock market has spoken!
Stock market decided that at this point in time Nortel business is not acceptable.
Nortel's accounting books show year after year net loss.
and what about shareholders?
They invested $380 bill in NT stock as some late articles posted!
I used simple math to show anyone how many average shareholders were fooled by Nortel.
answer is 30 mill investors invested $10 k on average and lost all of it!
It's shocking, isn't it?
and if I can add
there is no logic to invest more in the business like Nortel!
No logic Sir!
Nortel going BK is not a loss! It's a necessary adjustment!
Nortel has not been able to restructure itself to be a normal, profitable, competitive company!

Re: Time to Turn Out the Lights?

don — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:09:00 -0000

Me and my 315,000 shares vote for.... Angelina! Yes, I vote for less talk about... what was his name? Oh, yeah.. Mike Z... and begin a discussion about the wonderful consequences of Darwinism!

: )

don