All About Nortel - Latest Comments in To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

jphil25 — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:45:35 -0000

Nortel has provided a wide range of products to Canada and the world.
So many canadians have had jobs with NORTEL. However, management has been corrupt to say the least.
The canadian govt has to bailout NORTEL on clear outlined conditions to keep the company going and save jobs. New management, as suggested by others, would be one of those conditions.

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

jacqui1 — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:57:29 -0000

Its not to late, what about a Management buy out?

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

jacqui1 — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:55:41 -0000

Rememeber, Optical started in UK at the Nortel Office in Harlow, its not a question of moving jobs back to Canada, most of its revenue is outside Canada therefore its getting the right people to run the company, keeping the company global is the only way forward. For the last 6 years we have had the wrong Leaders who have just spent spent spent. Look at the cost of Six Sigma ?? was the really necessary ? no it was not.

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

jacqui1 — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:50:40 -0000

Yes, with a new Management team in place

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

scalpcutter — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:02:59 -0000

I agree one hundred percent with a BAILOUT providing the following condtions are parf of the bailout:
A/ Get rid of BOD and Executives.
B/ Bring jobs back to Canada.
C/ Re-institute severance for workers who will be laid off in the future.
And since none of the above is going to happen you know what that means.

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

Nortel_Sucker — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:12:30 -0000

You must be joking. Moving Engineering/Support jobs is one of the reasons the Company is going down. The products are state of the art and complex. The learning curve is long. You would not see any payback on this for at least 5 years. Not to mention the cost of building and laying down the infrastructure.
Shipping alone is a massive expensive especially in China where it takes 4-5 months to receive.
Also these so called low wage earners are now demanding more pay.
An experienced engineer could solve a Customer problem in 10 minutes where the new folks take days. One Customer from North America called for support and got a voicemail in Turkish. Not Happy.
This is not to say the overseas people are at fault here, they were just thrown into something more then they were ready to handle by Judas Z.
They do not deliver the "same good job as you put it", maybe in the future but to bad there is no future in Chapter 7.
The outsourcing of jobs was started in about 1998, so how come the Company is now in Bankruptcy protection and the stocks sewered if it is such a good move?

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

protospherical1 — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:30:19 -0000

Here are the Globe and Mail's Poll results:
85% = NO
15%= YES

http://www.theglobeandmail....

Any IP can vote multiple times on the CBC's poll as I indicated.
I should have stated it was imbalanced and left it at that than to reasoning why as I got some flack for that albeit still maintain my position this is why. (multi-voters)

Again, CBS's poll is not factual or reflective of Canadian's opinion,in poll. It is misaligned =) with prejudice. In other words, horsefeathers, The Globe's seems to be more accurate over the very short duration it ran and multiply larger.

As for bailing out a white elephant, who exports jobs, and can't get its losing numbers straight, I would say this is profoundly absurd to the point of uncontrollable laughter. However, the sobering reflection of what the EDC's did with taxpayers money exporting jobs than product, let alone the OSC which is bound to bust a stitch giving RIM and unprecedented $100M fine for coming forward and Nortel at measly $1M for costs in the largest fraud in Canada. So hey, perhaps anything goes to defy outrage and maybe it is really me that is misaligned here after all =) My opinion in that I am not can not be pried from me without proof that I am. =)

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

McBeese — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:29:04 -0000

Bailouts can come with conditions, in fact they always do.

I think a bailout is unlikely, but not for the reasons you specify because those are things a government can fix.

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

exnt2 — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:17:08 -0000

no bailout because:
. the company is grossly mis-managed,
. 80% of the company is outside Canada,
. huge outsourcing and NT still gets R&D credits for work outside canada
. zero competitiveness so no value on taxpayer money
. massive debt will only result in holding a junk company

I believe NT management are crooks. They do not deserve a penny.

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

ex_norteler — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:32:37 -0000

This is really a selfish opinion. It's the same as the top officer collecting huge bonus while cutting jobs. No matter which office they are working in, they are all Nortel employee. They contribute to the company. Nortel would be out of bussiness one year ago if had not moved those jobs to the lower cost centers. The saved money was used to pay your salary which they could hire 5-10 people in those place. And trust me, those people deliver the same good job as you do.

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

Desk Jockey — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:26:48 -0000

This poll has turned into a farce.

The followers of the "I believe" campaign are actively spamming it because they have the blind belief that a bailout is all that is needed to rectify the situation.

As I have stated before, a straight bailout won't solve a thing. It is like keeping the feeding tube in without excising the cancer that is killing the patient.

The "I believe" nuts - who are sincere but sorely misguided - are so desperate that this is what is has come to. This is more a reflection of how much they have been abused, misused and misguided by upper management.

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

This_bites — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:49:37 -0000

I'd prefer to let the Credit Committee and Monitors punt the current execs and BoD in favor of some Strategic and Tactical leaders that know this industry. Then they can apply for DIP loans along with their other cost saving restructuring plans to help to get though. Any help from the government(s) would be better spent on two other fronts. First, spend on the build-out of telecom infrastructure across North America. It would put a lot of jobs back across the board and allow Nortel the opportunity to compete for their share. Second, minimize employee and pension impacts (if the lead creditors can expect about 20 cents on the dollar, then put at least similar amounts up for severence and pension while under restructuring). The worker bees are getting reamed on this one.

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

oneof30kleft — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:46:57 -0000

i agree with cataractus, the possible bailout is frought with problems. from the us employee stand point those other centers in mexico, istanbul, mumbai, bejing and novgorod can rot in h__l.. and lets not use us money on those centers either

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

broadbandbill — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:17:55 -0000

Thanks DJ. The lack the two things :) required to make this come true...--bb

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

broadbandbill — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:16:34 -0000

Thanks nortelgirl, that alone was worth the touble...-bb

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

nortelgirl — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:11:51 -0000

Great plan...Its been ages since I've laughed out loud whilst sitting in front of my computer screen - Thanks!

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

Desk Jockey — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:18:45 -0000

Well said my friend!

Your wit is matched only by your capacity for keen observation!

Now if only your words would come true...

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

Cataractus — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:15:44 -0000

Apart from the fact that bailouts are a bad idea in general, Nortel would be a particularly poor candidate due to the fact that most of its current employees aren't even Canadian. The issue of spending taxpayers money to save jobs in Istanbul, Mexico City, Mumbai, Beijing and Novgorod, not to mention the USA, would pop up immediately. MPs would quite rightly determine that the Canadian taxpayer should not pay to save mostly foreign jobs.

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

ACloseObserver — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:17:44 -0000

Let it go. There's too much capacity in the market and NT no longer has the ability to compete effectively - it's fallen too far behind in its IP, and it no longer has critical mass in any of the markets in which it competes.

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

joremero — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:52:31 -0000

protosphere,
I forgot to mention that not everything is a conspiracy ;)

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

joremero — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:08:36 -0000

I mean, most agree, I know not everyone....

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

joremero — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:08:18 -0000

I think everyone agrees tha the BoDs and Z should go... then NT should get help

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

joremero — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:06:46 -0000

Your logic is flawed,
The fact that the surveys are not accurate because of the access of biased respondents (employees, ex-employees, investors, etc) was different. It seems pretty obvious to me that employees got a lot of access to the CBC poll while other people (maybe ex-employees or comptetitors or simply real people) got access to the other poll...
That doesn't mean in any way that someone voted 500 times.

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

NortelEmp — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:12:03 -0000

Casual Observer, you raise an interesting point. Government "investment" should have a return for the country and the country's people. If the Canadian government gave Nortel money, how would Canada benefit? Clearly the company will reduce the number of employees and if the past is any indication of the future, many jobs will be moved outside of Canada. In the end, what might remain is a controlling entity (eg. Toronto HQ) with numerous subsidiaries elsewhere - assuming, of course, that it's actually possible to recover from this situation.

Canada needs to focus on developing in areas that will be of benefit to the country in the future. Telecom certainly falls into that bucket but how can Canada differentiate itself from other nations' advantages? Is bailing out Nortel the best use of cash or would it be better to give the money to a company like RIM (for example only) and encourage Canadian Nortel employees to work there instead?

There is an opportunity cost to bailouts. What should the government care most about? Nortel employees and Canadian innovation or a global MNC that has been unable to recover from an 8 year old crisis? This is not to lay blame - maybe it's just impossible to fix the situation as is with cash. Just like businesses need to innovate, so does the government. Is throwing cash at an old problem the best way?

Re: To Bail Out or Not to Bail Out

1derY — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:36:31 -0000

How can one remove the BoDs ?.

The BoDs brought Z in and they certainly wont' remove him...They all will not go without a fuss especially when their pockets are already full with money and their a... are covered with insurance money.

John "the bad stuff is behind us" Manley will not see Conversative government to force his hand.

The bailout will not happen as long as these crooks are around...At minimum Z, the BoDs , and all the presidents have to be removed for the bailout to have a chance... I don't see that to happen.

There are another 4-5 layers of VPs/Directors that we haven't gotten to... This company is rotten beyond the core...I would say, let it's buried.

I feel for all the hardworking employees who have stuck around all these years.